Original quake2 game bug

Post by Nick Warne
I found a Xatrix bug yesterday in that the 'ionripper' was called
'ionrippergun' (non-existant) and thus failed on the noAmmoWeapon change.
Testing today, I see that the rocket launcher is not in that list - looking
at original ID code, it isn't there either.
In p_weapon.c locate the function NoAmmoWeaponChange (edict_t *ent)
You will see the rocket_launcher is missing.

Rocket Launcher, I meant.

Post by Nick Warne
if ( ent->client->pers.inventory[ITEM_INDEX(FindItem("rockets"))]
&& ent->client->pers.inventory[ITEM_INDEX(FindItem("rocket
launcher"))] )
{
ent->client->newweapon = FindItem ("rocket launcher");
return;
}

--
"Person who say it cannot be done should not interrupt person doing it."
-Chinese Proverb

Jay Dolan

2006-01-10 20:47:47 UTC

Post by Nick Warne
In p_weapon.c locate the function

NoAmmoWeaponChange (edict_t *ent)

Post by Nick Warne
You will see the rocket_launcher is missing.

Rocket Launcher, I meant.

Hmm.. I've noticed this behavior, but never bothered
to check the code. Good call :)

Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000

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Nick Warne

2006-01-10 20:55:03 UTC

Post by Jay Dolan
Hmm.. I've noticed this behavior, but never bothered
to check the code. Good call :)

FYI, here is the Xatrix bug, and fix in detail:

http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6022

And here is a new thread about the new ID bug - I wasn't sure if it was
intentional, but it has to be a bug - otherwise why just leave out the rocket
launcher and include railgun (e.g.)? Others tend to disagree with me though:

http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6025

Nick

--
"Person who say it cannot be done should not interrupt person doing it."
-Chinese Proverb

Brendan Burns

2006-01-11 01:53:13 UTC

I agree... I'll fix this in quake2 cvs...

--brendan

Post by Jay Dolan
Hmm.. I've noticed this behavior, but never bothered
to check the code. Good call :)

http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6022
And here is a new thread about the new ID bug - I wasn't sure if it was
intentional, but it has to be a bug - otherwise why just leave out the rocket
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6025
Nick

Jay Dolan

2006-01-10 21:25:51 UTC

Post by Nick Warne
And here is a new thread about the new ID bug - I
wasn't sure if it was
intentional, but it has to be a bug - otherwise why
just leave out the rocket
launcher and include railgun (e.g.)? Others tend to
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6025

Thanks for the link. I agree that it's a bug. Either
way, it can be 'fixed' in icculus or q2f without
hurting anyone. Something this minor could hardly be
considered an 'incompatible change' - even if it did
produce slightly different behavior from the original
game.

*pokes around quakesrc*

Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000

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Karen Pouelle

2006-01-13 21:04:26 UTC

The rocket launcher is excluded from function NoAmmoWeaponChange
deliberately, and including it would be adding a bug (or would that be an
unwanted feature?). But the change from 'ionrippergun' to 'ionripper' is a
bug fix.

Karen

Post by Brendan Burns
I agree... I'll fix this in quake2 cvs...
--brendan

Post by Jay Dolan
Hmm.. I've noticed this behavior, but never bothered
to check the code. Good call :)

http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6022
And here is a new thread about the new ID bug - I wasn't sure if it was
intentional, but it has to be a bug - otherwise why just leave out the

rocket

Post by Nick Warne
launcher and include railgun (e.g.)? Others tend to disagree with me
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6025
Nick

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Nick Warne

2006-01-13 21:10:28 UTC

Hi,

Post by Karen Pouelle
The rocket launcher is excluded from function NoAmmoWeaponChange
deliberately, and including it would be adding a bug (or would that be an
unwanted feature?). But the change from 'ionrippergun' to 'ionripper' is a
bug fix.

The ionripper is a bug - BTW, it needs an additional fix - as it fires two
'cells' it will not work correctly unless the code checks cells > 1 (like the
super shotgun checks shells > 1):

Fix:
// RAFAEL
if ( ent->client->pers.inventory[ITEM_INDEX (FindItem ("cells"))] > 1

Now, back to the rocket launcher. Why is it considered _not_ a bug and
deliberate. Where is this recorded that it _shouldn't_ be in weapon swap out
on NoAmmoChange function?

And on what grounds?

Nick

Post by Brendan Burns
I agree... I'll fix this in quake2 cvs...
--brendan

Post by Jay Dolan
Hmm.. I've noticed this behavior, but never bothered
to check the code. Good call :)

http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6022
And here is a new thread about the new ID bug - I wasn't sure if it was
intentional, but it has to be a bug - otherwise why just leave out the

rocket

Post by Nick Warne
launcher and include railgun (e.g.)? Others tend to disagree with me
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6025
Nick

__________________________________________________________
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--
"Person who say it cannot be done should not interrupt person doing it."
-Chinese Proverb

Jay Dolan

2006-01-13 21:07:24 UTC

Post by Karen Pouelle
The rocket launcher is excluded from function
NoAmmoWeaponChange
deliberately, and including it would be adding a bug
(or would that be an
unwanted feature?). But the change from
'ionrippergun' to 'ionripper' is a
bug fix.
Karen

Uhm, did you work for id software?

Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000

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Karen Pouelle

2006-01-13 21:46:03 UTC

Post by Nick Warne
Now, back to the rocket launcher. Why is it considered _not_ a
bug and deliberate.
Where is this recorded that it _shouldn't_ be in weapon swap
out on NoAmmoChange function?

According to Jay Dolan, it is a bug:

"I agree that it's a bug. Either way, it can be 'fixed' in icculus or q2f
without hurting anyone. Something this minor could hardly be considered an
'incompatible change' - even if it did produce slightly different behavior
from the original game."

I think he's wrong about that little detail - after years of playing the game
and only hours in the code, I know that it really couldn't be 'fixed' without
hurting anyone, because running out of ammo and changing to the rocket
launcher and firing is just dangerous to everyone. Try running around after
typing "give all" and "+attack" at the console prompt, assuming infinite
ammo's not on. Don't point that rocket launcher thing at any nearby boxes,
walls, or floors unless you're performing an icculus-assisted NoAmmoChange
rocket jump.

The first clue that it's an 'incompatible change' is in the
manual that comes with the original game - says something about when running
out of ammo, a safe weapon is selected. A railgun
is fine - have you ever shot yourself with the railgun? Maybe you were just
holding it backwards...

Not including the rocket launcher in the NoAmmoChange function one of the few
details that was correctly implimented in the server-side game code during
the rapid game development - don't change it unless you add a safety to the
rocket launcher some how.

Fanatics typically bypass this behavior with their own weapons-select alias
bound to some key to pick the most powerful weapon (dangerous or not) that
isn't out of ammo. That nice "click" sound when running out of ammo can be
replaced with a "Just shoot me now" sound, otherwise. ;)

Karen

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Nick Warne

2006-01-13 22:02:06 UTC

Well, I just quickly scanned my manual that came with the game in 1998 and all
it says to do with any of this is the description of the rocket launcher:

[sic] "Rocket launcher: The rocket launcher delivers heavy fire power to your
target. Be careful not use this weapon in close combat"

The manual says nothing at all about running out of ammo and weapon swaps.

Nick

--
"Person who say it cannot be done should not interrupt person doing it."
-Chinese Proverb

Jay Dolan

2006-01-13 22:03:28 UTC

Post by Karen Pouelle
I think he's wrong about that little detail - after
years of playing the game
and only hours in the code, I know that it really
couldn't be 'fixed' without
hurting anyone, because running out of ammo and
changing to the rocket
launcher and firing is just dangerous to everyone.

I think "dangerous" is a bit strong. If you're a
chronic wall-shooter, a suicide is a fitting reward
for not keeping a level head in close-quarters
deathmatch :) Click->Respawn->LifeGoesOn.

Post by Karen Pouelle
Try running around after
typing "give all" and "+attack" at the console
prompt, assuming infinite
ammo's not on. Don't point that rocket launcher
thing at any nearby boxes,
walls, or floors unless you're performing an
icculus-assisted NoAmmoChange
rocket jump.

What?

Post by Karen Pouelle
The first clue that it's an 'incompatible change' is
in the
manual that comes with the original game - says
something about when running
out of ammo, a safe weapon is selected. A railgun
is fine - have you ever shot yourself with the
railgun? Maybe you were just
holding it backwards...

Please point this out for me.
http://library.n0i.net/games/Quake2%20Manual/

Post by Karen Pouelle
Not including the rocket launcher in the
NoAmmoChange function one of the few
details that was correctly implimented in the
server-side game code during
the rapid game development

Is this just a guess? Except for your vague (and
apparently absent) manual reference, where is
discussion on this behavior documented? There were
numerous defects with Quake2. Isn't it probable that
this was one of them? Consider that a similar bug for
another item was found in tandem with this one. And
consider that no other potentially "dangerous" weapon
(BFG, Grenade Launcher) is missing.

Post by Karen Pouelle
Fanatics typically bypass this behavior with their
own weapons-select alias
bound to some key to pick the most powerful weapon
(dangerous or not) that
isn't out of ammo. That nice "click" sound when
running out of ammo can be
replaced with a "Just shoot me now" sound,
otherwise. ;)

So they would be unaffected by this fix. If it's of
that big a deal to you, why not set this up? Myself,
I'd want to get the rocket launcher if I'm out of
slugs. You can't assume that players always run out
of ammo in close-range firefights. That would be foolish.

Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000

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Nick Warne

2006-01-13 22:23:05 UTC

On Friday 13 January 2006 22:03, Jay Dolan wrote:

/Nick *coughs*

Post by Jay Dolan
And
consider that no other potentially "dangerous" weapon
(BFG, Grenade Launcher) is missing.

They are missing too. I can understand why grenades are, because then you are
at a disadvantage. The BFG is not on all original maps, so that could be why
also.

BUT:

I still think this part of the code was done as the weapons got developed with
'dumb' ammo, and at the later stages the when the 'thinking' weapon ammo got
developed they overlooked this in that function. It is only the 'thinking
ammo' left out.

Nick

--
"Person who say it cannot be done should not interrupt person doing it."
-Chinese Proverb

Karen Pouelle

2006-01-14 00:03:14 UTC

Post by Nick Warne
I still think this part of the code was done as the weapons got
developed with 'dumb' ammo, and at the later stages the when the
'thinking' weapon ammo got developed they overlooked this in
that function. It is only the 'thinking ammo' left out.

Does that prove that thinking is dangerous? ;)

Seriously, that's an interesting theory I might accept had I not
read somewhere in the last 10+ years in some of Id's literature.
Ask others who have been playing Id's games for awhile,
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6025
documents others who seem to recall the same thing I have.

Or maybe someone at Id knows. It's certainly different from
how Quake4 behaves in this regard. I'd love to see documentation
that proves I'm wrong, also.

Perhaps you can code a patch where normally the
original behaviour is preserved, unless a specific
newly-documented cvar is set.

Karen

__________________________________________________________
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Nick Warne

2006-01-14 00:12:47 UTC

Post by Karen Pouelle
Does that prove that thinking is dangerous? ;)

Since I sent the earlier mail, I been thinking :-)

Post by Karen Pouelle
Seriously, that's an interesting theory I might accept had I not
read somewhere in the last 10+ years in some of Id's literature.
Ask others who have been playing Id's games for awhile,
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6025
documents others who seem to recall the same thing I have.

Quake - the original (can't call it quake1 as quake2 wasn't yet born). What
weapons did that have (I have never played it), and did they swap out on no
ammo as quake2 does now (or did then)?

Could it be remnants of old code from quake that was never updated??

Post by Karen Pouelle
Or maybe someone at Id knows. It's certainly different from
how Quake4 behaves in this regard. I'd love to see documentation
that proves I'm wrong, also.

Yes, only ID coders would know. Xatrix team knew though, even though they
totally screwed up the code so it didn't work for the ionripper and phalanx.
(no 'return' in the functions, let alone the ionrippergun typo).

Post by Karen Pouelle
Perhaps you can code a patch where normally the
original behaviour is preserved, unless a specific
newly-documented cvar is set.

The best way here, I think, is a define in Makefile, on by default:

#ifndef ORIGINAL

type stuff.

Nick

--
"Person who say it cannot be done should not interrupt person doing it."
-Chinese Proverb

Nick Warne

2006-01-14 00:16:59 UTC

Post by Nick Warne
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6025

Forgot to say - I am 'Bill Stokes' on that forum - and that is my thread :-)

Nick

--
"Person who say it cannot be done should not interrupt person doing it."
-Chinese Proverb

Karen Pouelle

2006-01-14 01:25:28 UTC

Post by Nick Warne
Quake - the original (can't call it quake1 as quake2 wasn't
yet born). What weapons did that have (I have never played it),
and did they swap out on no ammo as quake2 does now
(or did then)?

I just tried them all, Quake, Quake II, Quake 3A, and Quake4.

Quake had the lightning gun, valued above the rocket launcher.
But running out of ammo with that (or any weapon) doesn't
cause a change to the rocket launcher; instead, it changes
to just the double barrel shotgun.

So the behaviours are the same with regard to running out of
ammo and weapons switching from Quake to Quake 2. But Quake 3 and 4 do switch
to rocket launcher when running out of ammo.

Post by Nick Warne
Could it be remnants of old code from quake that was never updated??

It is possible, but it could just be more of a game style change.

Post by Karen Pouelle
Or maybe someone at Id knows.

Yes, only ID coders would know. Xatrix team knew though, even
though they totally screwed up the code so it didn't work for
the ionripper and phalanx.
#ifndef ORIGINAL

Would that only affect servers you were running or would you
have the mod function when you connected to an original server?

I suppose that might depend on where you make the change - the
server side game code change would change the behaviour for
connecting clients, but clients who've made the mod on their
server side game wouldn't see the change when connecting to an
original Quake 2 server. It would have to be a compile-time
option in the client code for those who want the change to
have it in all cases.

Even though I think the weapon change/damage avoidance for no
ammo is deliberate, there's no dispute - there are lots of bugs, and more in
the mission packs.

Karen

__________________________________________________________
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Rick Knight

2006-01-14 17:01:50 UTC

I just tried them all, Quake, Quake II, Quake 3A, and Quake4.
Quake had the lightning gun, valued above the rocket launcher.
But running out of ammo with that (or any weapon) doesn't
cause a change to the rocket launcher; instead, it changes
to just the double barrel shotgun.
So the behaviours are the same with regard to running out of
ammo and weapons switching from Quake to Quake 2. But Quake 3 and 4 do switch
to rocket launcher when running out of ammo.

Post by Nick Warne
Could it be remnants of old code from quake that was never updated??

It is possible, but it could just be more of a game style change.

Post by Karen Pouelle
Or maybe someone at Id knows.

Yes, only ID coders would know. Xatrix team knew though, even
though they totally screwed up the code so it didn't work for
the ionripper and phalanx.
#ifndef ORIGINAL

Would that only affect servers you were running or would you
have the mod function when you connected to an original server?
I suppose that might depend on where you make the change - the
server side game code change would change the behaviour for
connecting clients, but clients who've made the mod on their
server side game wouldn't see the change when connecting to an
original Quake 2 server. It would have to be a compile-time
option in the client code for those who want the change to
have it in all cases.
Even though I think the weapon change/damage avoidance for no
ammo is deliberate, there's no dispute - there are lots of bugs, and more in
the mission packs.
Karen
__________________________________________________________
Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca

Karen,

What is Quake 3A? Is it something other than Quake 3?

Thanks,
Rick Knight

Adam Mercer

2006-01-14 17:20:42 UTC

Post by Rick Knight
What is Quake 3A? Is it something other than Quake 3?

Quake3 Arena?

Cheers

Adam

Nick Warne

2006-01-14 17:33:47 UTC

Post by Nick Warne
#ifndef ORIGINAL

Well, it would be a default build so that it it represents the original.

In the makefile you could have -DORIGINAL appended to build lines.

In the code, e.g.:

#ifndef ORIGINAL
// Nick - 10/01/2006 - add the rocket launcher (missing?)
if ( ent->client->pers.inventory[ITEM_INDEX(FindItem("rockets"))]
&& ent->client->pers.inventory[ITEM_INDEX(FindItem("rocket
launcher"))] )
{
ent->client->newweapon = FindItem ("rocket launcher");
return;
}
#endif

Yes, it would require to be done at build, but that at least gives people the
way to add the weapons on NoAmmoChange if they wish.

I think a CVAR is the wrong way to go - you either use the code or don't.

Nick

--
"Person who say it cannot be done should not interrupt person doing it."
-Chinese Proverb

Nick Warne

2006-01-14 17:38:47 UTC

Post by Nick Warne
#ifndef ORIGINAL

Would that only affect servers you were running or would you
have the mod function when you connected to an original server?

Opps, forgot this bit.

The server MOD controls the client - in fact with quake2 a client doesn't even
need the MOD/gamei386.so - so it is server side only what MOD/binary they run
and changes therein.

Nick

--
"Person who say it cannot be done should not interrupt person doing it."
-Chinese Proverb

Karen Pouelle

2006-01-16 13:47:12 UTC

Post by Rick Knight
What is Quake 3A? Is it something other than Quake 3?

--- Adam Mercer <ramercer at gmail.com> wrote: Quake3 Arena?

Id Software calls it "Quake III Arena"
Quake III Gold contains Quake III Arena & Quake III: Team Arena

Id Software calls the sequel "Quake 4", while Activision
sometimes refers to it as "Quake IV".

Quake 4 is the first title without Roman numerals ("Quake"
notwithstanding).

Confusing at times - we just call Quake II, Quake 2.

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Richard W. Knight

2006-01-16 16:42:17 UTC

Post by Rick Knight
What is Quake 3A? Is it something other than Quake 3?

--- Adam Mercer <ramercer at gmail.com> wrote: Quake3 Arena?
Id Software calls it "Quake III Arena"
Quake III Gold contains Quake III Arena & Quake III: Team Arena
Id Software calls the sequel "Quake 4", while Activision
sometimes refers to it as "Quake IV".
Quake 4 is the first title without Roman numerals ("Quake"
notwithstanding).
Confusing at times - we just call Quake II, Quake 2.
__________________________________________________________
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Thanks for the clarification.

Some time ago, there was a project to bring single player modes to Q3A.
Anyone know if that has ever been completed? I have all the Quakes,
except 4, but am a "single player" player. I bought Q3A without
realizing it was exclusively multi-player.

Thanks,
Rick Knight

Jay Dolan

2006-01-16 18:35:22 UTC

--- "Richard W. Knight" <rick_knight at rlknight.com>

Post by Richard W. Knight
Thanks for the clarification.
Some time ago, there was a project to bring single
player modes to Q3A.
Anyone know if that has ever been completed? I have
all the Quakes,
except 4, but am a "single player" player. I bought
Q3A without
realizing it was exclusively multi-player.

It's called Return to Castle Wolfenstein. Sometimes
referred to as American McGee's Alice. Or Star Wars
Jedi Knight ;) There were several good single player
games built on Quake3 technology.

Btw, Q3 has "single player" - bots. Or are you
looking for the mission/campaign experience?

Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000

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Richard W. Knight

2006-01-16 21:12:12 UTC

Post by Jay Dolan
--- "Richard W. Knight" <rick_knight at rlknight.com>

It's called Return to Castle Wolfenstein. Sometimes
referred to as American McGee's Alice. Or Star Wars
Jedi Knight ;) There were several good single player
games built on Quake3 technology.
Btw, Q3 has "single player" - bots. Or are you
looking for the mission/campaign experience?
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000
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Thanks Jay, I have RTCW. I don't much care for playing against bots,more
for the "mission/campaign" game experience and I really like the way Q2
plays. Was hoping Q3A would have a similar mode.

Thanks again,
Rick Knight

Karen Pouelle

2006-01-19 20:12:49 UTC